The AI visuals were one thing, sure. (If they are AI.) I enjoyed the poems' imagery created by my own mind's eye while reading them. [Insert shrug "here."]
Those bee photos have so many tells of AI. Can you assure me they aren’t AI? This is deeply concerning and counter to everything I know about and expect from Joyce Carol Oates and her writing. The poems are a delight, but the presence of AI photos in her work is alarming to say the very least.
JCO is a writer. She is not a photographer. Why does she need to live up to your expectations of what is appropriate for her Substack? We subscribe for the WRITING. She doesn’t owe you any explanation of the chosen illustrations.
Hello, Bonnie. Thanks for your questions. Taking them as if in good faith and answering them. Given these are edited and arranged by Robert, he and anyone else assisting with her platform and responsible for her reputation with Substack readers and beyond are who need to answer, not Oates, as the byline indicates she wasn’t there for that choice. Which also concerns me.
I personally subscribe for the whole experience of a designed and shared post, and speak up when an author’s work is represented in ways out of alignment with her legacy as deeply influential and respected in modern American literature, as well as someone who continually pushed and defined forms, rather than taking shortcuts that harm other artists, our economy, our neighbors, and our world in general.
It’s also a better poem without such poor and boring graphics to lower the quality of experience of reading it - they invade the text rather than supporting it or expanding on it.
qGet used to it. I though they were a bit obscene too. Bees from the ground must always be bumbles so yes you could be stung but would not be so covered as the generated image. Bumbles don't send a great wave of attackers out when desturbed just one or two might crawl on you more than fly but their sting is no less painful for that, unlike honeybees as the poem suggest they are, who only sting once and leave their stinger barbed into your flesh with the pulsing venom sac attached, this is to say you should quickly scrap these off not use your fingers to grab the stinger hence squeezing in all the venom to your displeasure, if not peril, should you be allergic and far from your epipen injector.
A mix of terror, tenderness and beauty. Those bees, a visual tour de force as frightening as any horror movie. The poignancy of The Long Heavy Chain and the Aged Cat, a mournful elegy. I like the white on black drawings for the Heavy Chain poem a lot!
So much agita over the illustrations! Remember, we read this Substack for JCO’s sublime writing. The illustrations are simply to provide visual enhancement. Most are photos, like her kitties. Some are photos taken by friends or colleagues (see previous entries), or by JCO herself. Regarding the bee illustrations, if you recall, JCO was herself stung by a swarm of bees, and this hilarious poem is probably her own account of the experience, perhaps embellished a bit for dramatic effect. But she couldn’t possibly have taken photos of the attack while the envenomation was occurring. So lighten up!
I did not know Joyce was stung by bees.. when was this? Just to clarify for the record, swarms of bees don't sting you, hives of bees do. Also I failed to read anything halarious in this poem/account of disturbing a hive of bees. Assuming the poet did experience what inspired the poem she had a very close call swelling up like that. It was therefore fortunate she did not disturb a hive of Africanized bees. The picture suggested what an AFB attack would actually look like except she would have been covered by bees not just her legs. A poem about being badly stung by bees should maybe not be accompanied by pictures, if you don't know what you're talking about. The poem would suffice on its own.
That’s interesting about swarms vs hives! A few years ago on her twitter account, she showed photos of the bee/wasp attack. 2021 maybe? Can’t recall. Wasn’t funny of course. It’s funny AFTER bc she was fine. Anyone else would have dropped dead, but she has superpowers.
The photos get more comment than the story because the photos are obscene. Images have power too so be careful mixing obscene images with your poems. The two together may receive commentary, not imagined. The whole presentation must be taken into consideration unlike your editorializing of what we're supposed to be seeing and thinking, that's your problem, not my problem.
The fact that the bees don't look normal more like bumblebees too large for honey bees large clumps of black things the whole generated picture was grotesque so to me that falls under the description of obscene, something that is not natural and distracts from its companion which in this case is the poem. Those pictures do not represent anything related to legs covered in bees. We just see bunch dark clumps on legs then the floor around a pair of legs. This is just wrong and consequently obscene at least to someone who has experiences with bees. Obscenity takes many forms, it is not just about pornography for instance pictures of body parts lining the walls of a trench in France during WWI would fit this description. Obscene.
You rarely disappoint, Miss Joyce Carol Oates. Bravo!
Great poems! Auto-read, AI-read is not so satisfying. I offer my reading...
The AI visuals were one thing, sure. (If they are AI.) I enjoyed the poems' imagery created by my own mind's eye while reading them. [Insert shrug "here."]
Of course some of the illustrations are AI; the poems are 100% JCO!
Those bee photos have so many tells of AI. Can you assure me they aren’t AI? This is deeply concerning and counter to everything I know about and expect from Joyce Carol Oates and her writing. The poems are a delight, but the presence of AI photos in her work is alarming to say the very least.
JCO is a writer. She is not a photographer. Why does she need to live up to your expectations of what is appropriate for her Substack? We subscribe for the WRITING. She doesn’t owe you any explanation of the chosen illustrations.
Hello, Bonnie. Thanks for your questions. Taking them as if in good faith and answering them. Given these are edited and arranged by Robert, he and anyone else assisting with her platform and responsible for her reputation with Substack readers and beyond are who need to answer, not Oates, as the byline indicates she wasn’t there for that choice. Which also concerns me.
I personally subscribe for the whole experience of a designed and shared post, and speak up when an author’s work is represented in ways out of alignment with her legacy as deeply influential and respected in modern American literature, as well as someone who continually pushed and defined forms, rather than taking shortcuts that harm other artists, our economy, our neighbors, and our world in general.
It’s also a better poem without such poor and boring graphics to lower the quality of experience of reading it - they invade the text rather than supporting it or expanding on it.
Thanks for your engagement!
Huh. My suggestion is to not look at the pictures and focus strictly on the text. For me, I just breezed over them. Except for the kitty photos.
qGet used to it. I though they were a bit obscene too. Bees from the ground must always be bumbles so yes you could be stung but would not be so covered as the generated image. Bumbles don't send a great wave of attackers out when desturbed just one or two might crawl on you more than fly but their sting is no less painful for that, unlike honeybees as the poem suggest they are, who only sting once and leave their stinger barbed into your flesh with the pulsing venom sac attached, this is to say you should quickly scrap these off not use your fingers to grab the stinger hence squeezing in all the venom to your displeasure, if not peril, should you be allergic and far from your epipen injector.
Probably yellow jackets
Some wasps do make burrows in the ground they can be annoyed by grass mowers and attract them, which makes a lot of sense.
A mix of terror, tenderness and beauty. Those bees, a visual tour de force as frightening as any horror movie. The poignancy of The Long Heavy Chain and the Aged Cat, a mournful elegy. I like the white on black drawings for the Heavy Chain poem a lot!
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Some Poems
Regarding animals and insects
Joyce Carol Oates
Aug 6
READ IN APP
Edited and arranged by Robert Friedman
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THE LONG HEAVY CHAIN
Just started to read zero sum game.
Her writing, her mind, is even sharper and more deadly than I remember from long ago. Horrifying.
Love all of these! The first one about the dog breaks my heart. Why do people do this to a dog? Always still admiring you so much.
So much agita over the illustrations! Remember, we read this Substack for JCO’s sublime writing. The illustrations are simply to provide visual enhancement. Most are photos, like her kitties. Some are photos taken by friends or colleagues (see previous entries), or by JCO herself. Regarding the bee illustrations, if you recall, JCO was herself stung by a swarm of bees, and this hilarious poem is probably her own account of the experience, perhaps embellished a bit for dramatic effect. But she couldn’t possibly have taken photos of the attack while the envenomation was occurring. So lighten up!
I did not know Joyce was stung by bees.. when was this? Just to clarify for the record, swarms of bees don't sting you, hives of bees do. Also I failed to read anything halarious in this poem/account of disturbing a hive of bees. Assuming the poet did experience what inspired the poem she had a very close call swelling up like that. It was therefore fortunate she did not disturb a hive of Africanized bees. The picture suggested what an AFB attack would actually look like except she would have been covered by bees not just her legs. A poem about being badly stung by bees should maybe not be accompanied by pictures, if you don't know what you're talking about. The poem would suffice on its own.
That’s interesting about swarms vs hives! A few years ago on her twitter account, she showed photos of the bee/wasp attack. 2021 maybe? Can’t recall. Wasn’t funny of course. It’s funny AFTER bc she was fine. Anyone else would have dropped dead, but she has superpowers.
The photos get more comment than the story because the photos are obscene. Images have power too so be careful mixing obscene images with your poems. The two together may receive commentary, not imagined. The whole presentation must be taken into consideration unlike your editorializing of what we're supposed to be seeing and thinking, that's your problem, not my problem.
What do you find “obscene?”
The fact that the bees don't look normal more like bumblebees too large for honey bees large clumps of black things the whole generated picture was grotesque so to me that falls under the description of obscene, something that is not natural and distracts from its companion which in this case is the poem. Those pictures do not represent anything related to legs covered in bees. We just see bunch dark clumps on legs then the floor around a pair of legs. This is just wrong and consequently obscene at least to someone who has experiences with bees. Obscenity takes many forms, it is not just about pornography for instance pictures of body parts lining the walls of a trench in France during WWI would fit this description. Obscene.
Chapeau ! Sharp insight ...
I enjoyed everything. Marvelous lyric writing. I have translated the first poem into Spanish.
LA LARGA CADENA PESADA
Por Joyce Carol Oates
En East Attica, Nueva York, sujeto a una larga cadena pesada
amarrado a
un collar de nilón deshilachado
que se le clavaba en el suave pelambre del cuello
un Basset Hound con la cara larga y melancólica
de H. P. Lovecraft
ha trazado un sendero sin hierba alrededor de su casita
dentro de los círculos concéntricos del Infierno
a la que la larga cadena pesada
lo tiene atado, aunque
al igual que todos los héroes que todos soñamos con ser
ha logrado trepar hasta el
techo de su casita
donde sus ojos melancólicos nos suplican
que nos acerquemos, más cerca…
una mano sobre la frente huesuda
solo un toque
Traducido del inglés por Alberto A. Martínez Márquez
In my translated version I maintained the form of the poem. Although, here is rendered diferent. Maybe because substack does not recognize it.
Great little poems! But oh so sad!